Hello --- Just a reminder that the live blog will be on Tuesday, January 12 at 7:30 p.m. We'll be discussing the chapter titled, "Lent," which begins on page 117.
First, apologies because I had said I would post some ideas for discussion "earlier" - I realize this doesn't really count as early, but here goes:
- the author seems conflicted in her feelings regarding the imposition of ashes - at one time calling them "anything if not bold" and yet she also writes that she forgets they are there - and yet again, "walking around makes [her] feel unhidden ... embarrassed." She does call Ash Wednesday, with its ashes on the forehead, "a day of unavoidable envangelism." What do you make of her feelings about being in public after the imposition of ashes? What are yours?
#3 - The author writes about Judaism teaching her to pray in a group - "giving lie ... that prayer is just about this vertical conversation between me and God and God and me." Similarly, she writes that if she [just] had to read the Bible [alone, by herself], "the task would be too awesome" and that reading "with the church" is one thing that drew her to Episcopalians. I wonder what exactly she means by reading "with the church."
And #4 - She writes in regard to prayer, "God ... is not on call." Later "Maybe St. Paul was talking about liturgy when he encouraged us to pray without ceasing." Your thoughts? Formal v. informal? Spontaneous v. liturgical?
OF COURSE, you are encouraged to bring up your own discussion ideas! I am glad you have joined us and am looking forward to the evening!
With regard to comment 1, Lauren seems to feel like all of us that we would like to do our part in evangelizing but feels that others will not respond or avoid us. She is ambivalent in her feelings. She know that many of her colleagues at Columbia will think of her as a "Bible thumper."
With respect to question 2, she wants to give up something, but reading is too much a part of her life and her friend's new book got the best of her curiosity. Do you feel that God really cares if we punish ourselves during Lent to show the depth of our faith?
I guess I never thought of "giving things up for Lent" as punishing ourselves - more just having to "do" something consciously and repeatedly to make us think about the meaning of the Lenten season. That's what struck me as odd about her comment. I agree, though, and it is becoming more than apparent, she is truly "conflicted."
As for comment 3, I think she needs the support of others in her faith and in most aspects of her life. What she means by reading with the church is reading with the congregation in a liturgical service.
I prefer spontaneous prayer. I love the beautiful of a liturgical service but must admit my mind does wander after saying the same creeds and prayers year after, year, after year, after year.
You know, it just struck me that we're frequently talking about her being conflicted. The book is here on the desk and the tag line "On the path to a spiritual life" just jumped out at me. Her path is circuitous, no doubt, and may or may not "end" in a certain denomination. But I guess that does not make it any less "spiritual."
I have never been inclined to give something up for Lent. Giving up chocolate or lattes always seemed superficial to me. But,the point in this chapter when her pastor asks her to give up reading really emphasized to me the message of Lent.
I think the liturgy can lead us to spontaneity. There is a lot of practice in Judaism. Maybe that's what is a conflict for her. She seems to have trouble letting go of habits that she has had.
I find reading "Girl Meets God" fascinating but it is difficult for me to remember what I have recently read because Lauren jumps around from topic to topic, although all her side trips do increase our understanding. She is certainly an emotionally and intellectually complex person, which is probably why her romances seem to fizzle. I am imagine she intimidates and confuses her boyfriends. I think what Linda says is true that she has a lot of trouble giving up old habits but hates feels troubled when she can't.
Heh, hate to admit my own conflicts, but I have certainly gone through periods when I found little meaning in the same liturgy over and over, and other periods when I found there was nothing I could say/think that would sound better.
Looking at my back cover I see the author described as "an appealing woman." I am finding her less and less "appealing." I think it would be frustrating to be her friend/boyfriend, although she does have a few bursts of insight among all the conflict and confusion.
With respect to Connie's comment about Lauren jumping around. I found the ending to the chapter puzzling. She had me really thinking about prayer and how we as Lutherans pray. Then, she recalls the encounter with the Jewish woman she visits in the nursing home. Thoughts?
Good point Kim - why the bit about tattoos - whether silly ones done on purpose or the ones imposed during the Holocaust? I don't see where that fits with the rest of the chapter/book and it seems so superficial.
I have never felt that Lutheran pastors place a great deal of emphasis on disciplining ourselves in some way, e.g. by eating fish on Friday or starving ourselves. In my mind Lent is a period to think about what Jesus suffered for me and what he accomplished for me, being grateful, and trying to be a better Christian.
Is she linking the tattoos and the ashes? She talked about the ashes being a bold statement. Her tattoos were covered up and for fun. The other woman's tattoo makes a bold statement about her Jewish faith.
Perhaps she brought up tattoos because she has some and is concerned about their religious implications since the Old Testament forbid them and you cannot be buried in a Jewish cemetary with them. unless they were inflicted on you by someone else against your will, e.g. the Nazis on the Jewish prisoners. She seemed relieved by the fact that the early Christians had them to show their faith to others.
Kuddos to Kim for her comment about the ashes/tattoos link! I may have to look at some of the other chapters with that in mind. I appreciate EVERYONE'S input this evening - thank you for your time! Remember that you can log in anytime to add additional comments or review what has been posted.
24 comments:
First, apologies because I had said I would post some ideas for discussion "earlier" - I realize this doesn't really count as early, but here goes:
- the author seems conflicted in her feelings regarding the imposition of ashes - at one time calling them "anything if not bold" and yet she also writes that she forgets they are there - and yet again, "walking around makes [her] feel unhidden ... embarrassed."
She does call Ash Wednesday, with its ashes on the forehead, "a day of unavoidable envangelism."
What do you make of her feelings about being in public after the imposition of ashes? What are yours?
#2: The author finds her Lenten discipline - giving up reading - not "self-satisfying." Hmmm. Is it supposed to be?
#3 - The author writes about Judaism teaching her to pray in a group - "giving lie ... that prayer is just about this vertical conversation between me and God and God and me." Similarly, she writes that if she [just] had to read the Bible [alone, by herself], "the task would be too awesome" and that reading "with the church" is one thing that drew her to Episcopalians. I wonder what exactly she means by reading "with the church."
And #4 - She writes in regard to prayer, "God ... is not on call." Later "Maybe St. Paul was talking about liturgy when he encouraged us to pray without ceasing." Your thoughts? Formal v. informal? Spontaneous v. liturgical?
OF COURSE, you are encouraged to bring up your own discussion ideas! I am glad you have joined us and am looking forward to the evening!
With regard to comment 1, Lauren seems to feel like all of us that we would like to do our part in evangelizing but feels that others will not respond or avoid us. She is ambivalent in her feelings. She know that many of her colleagues at Columbia will think of her as a "Bible thumper."
With respect to question 2, she wants to give up something, but reading is too much a part of her life and her friend's new book got the best of her curiosity. Do you feel that God really cares if we punish ourselves during Lent to show the depth of our faith?
I guess I never thought of "giving things up for Lent" as punishing ourselves - more just having to "do" something consciously and repeatedly to make us think about the meaning of the Lenten season. That's what struck me as odd about her comment.
I agree, though, and it is becoming more than apparent, she is truly "conflicted."
As for comment 3, I think she needs the support of others in her faith and in most aspects of her life. What she means by reading with the church is reading with the congregation in a liturgical service.
I prefer spontaneous prayer. I love the beautiful of a liturgical service but must admit my mind does wander after saying the same creeds and prayers year after, year, after year, after year.
You know, it just struck me that we're frequently talking about her being conflicted. The book is here on the desk and the tag line "On the path to a spiritual life" just jumped out at me. Her path is circuitous, no doubt, and may or may not "end" in a certain denomination. But I guess that does not make it any less "spiritual."
I have never been inclined to give something up for Lent. Giving up chocolate or lattes always seemed superficial to me. But,the point in this chapter when her pastor asks her to give up reading really emphasized to me the message of Lent.
Hello Kim, great to have you here with Connie and me! Please feel free to add any comments you have about the chapter or the book.
I think the liturgy can lead us to spontaneity. There is a lot of practice in Judaism. Maybe that's what is a conflict for her. She seems to have trouble letting go of habits that she has had.
Has anyone ever had a Lutheran pastor even discuss a "Lenten discipline?"
I find reading "Girl Meets God" fascinating but it is difficult for me to remember what I have recently read because Lauren jumps around from topic to topic, although all her side trips do increase our understanding. She is certainly an emotionally and intellectually complex person, which is probably why her romances seem to fizzle. I am imagine she intimidates and confuses her boyfriends. I think what Linda says is true that she has a lot of trouble giving up old habits but hates feels troubled when she can't.
Heh, hate to admit my own conflicts, but I have certainly gone through periods when I found little meaning in the same liturgy over and over, and other periods when I found there was nothing I could say/think that would sound better.
Looking at my back cover I see the author described as "an appealing woman." I am finding her less and less "appealing." I think it would be frustrating to be her friend/boyfriend, although she does have a few bursts of insight among all the conflict and confusion.
With respect to Connie's comment about Lauren jumping around. I found the ending to the chapter puzzling. She had me really thinking about prayer and how we as Lutherans pray. Then, she recalls the encounter with the Jewish woman she visits in the nursing home. Thoughts?
Good point Kim - why the bit about tattoos - whether silly ones done on purpose or the ones imposed during the Holocaust? I don't see where that fits with the rest of the chapter/book and it seems so superficial.
I have never felt that Lutheran pastors place a great deal of emphasis on disciplining ourselves in some way, e.g. by eating fish on Friday or starving ourselves. In my mind Lent is a period to think about what Jesus suffered for me and what he accomplished for me, being grateful, and trying to be a better Christian.
Is she linking the tattoos and the ashes? She talked about the ashes being a bold statement. Her tattoos were covered up and for fun. The other woman's tattoo makes a bold statement about her Jewish faith.
Doh!
Perhaps she brought up tattoos because she has some and is concerned about their religious implications since the Old Testament forbid them and you cannot be buried in a Jewish cemetary with them. unless they were inflicted on you by someone else against your will, e.g. the Nazis on the Jewish prisoners. She seemed relieved by the fact that the early Christians had them to show their faith to others.
Kuddos to Kim for her comment about the ashes/tattoos link! I may have to look at some of the other chapters with that in mind. I appreciate EVERYONE'S input this evening - thank you for your time! Remember that you can log in anytime to add additional comments or review what has been posted.
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